Interview with Jesús Ramos-Kittrell, conducted by John Wood, April 26, 2024

John Wood – Tell us, how did you get into musicology?

Jesús Ramos-Kittrell – That’s an old question, because it was a different moment in history. Well, I came out with a music performance degree in classical guitar. That was my bachelors. And at that moment I was getting ready to go to Mexico to look for a job, because back then, that’s what you did. You pursued a bachelor’s degree and you went into the job market. Grad school was something that, “man, maybe, who knows,” it’s something of a specialty, whatever. But in Mexico—I was planning to go to Mexico—in Mexico at that moment, if you went into academia, which is what I saw myself doing, in addition to playing concerts or whatever I wanted to do at the moment. Academia was something at university where I thought I would have some stability in terms of, you know, a salary and other types of benefits, whatsoever. In Mexico, if you come with a degree in music, they made you do everything that you could do: like teach music theory, teach counterpoint, teach music history. You had to, of course, teach chamber music and your instrument, but other things as well that are more theoretical, more historical. Music appreciation was also something that they would throw at you. So you had to pretty much be able to graph on different areas in order to put something together, ready for you to teach. And with a bachelors degree in performance, I still didn’t see myself with enough resources. So I said to myself, if I pursue a masters in historical musicology at that point, I think I’ll be better rounded off, or, you know, I’ll have more resources to draw from. And I started to do that. But when I started to write my thesis, I started to realize, well, there’s something interesting here, and it’s not necessarily about music history; I think it has to do with the anthropology and cultural studies behind music that I’m really into. And I really wanted to do more of that. And by the time I was finishing my masters, I realized that I was not practicing my guitar anymore because I was so into reading and doing research on whatever other things I wanted to pursue.

So that’s when I made a very, very hard decision, because I didn’t know if I had what it took to be an academic. Right? I saw some of my peers there, who were in the PhD program already, and they were preparing papers to go to conferences. To me that was scary though, you know? To me that implied that you had to know what you were talking about, to be presenting at a conference. I was really insecure. I said, “I don’t know if I have what it takes to be able to do that. And that’s what I have to do? Shoot. I have to make a decision.” So, I said, well, I’m gonna focus on something that I really want. And something that I think I can talk about.

I was interested first in these manuscripts that have been found somewhere, seemingly from Indigenous people writing to the Virgin Mary, or singing to the Virgin Mary in European polyphony, in the 16th century, right after the conquest. And to me that was really sketchy. I just didn’t buy it. I didn’t see people singing to a different god or a different deity, or in this case the Virgin, a sort of theological figure in a different musical language, right after a very cruel battle that had pretty much decimated their entire population and decimated their cultural beliefs, their system, everything. So I decided to start studying that area. And one thing led to another. So I started to pursue more early modern studies. And I never left this globalization aspect, because, you know, NAFTA had a huge impact on me personally, like it did on other people. So that was always another area of interest of mine that I dug into.

That’s how it went into the PhD, into musicology, mostly because of that concern, first, for a more rounded profile, and then later following those issues. But I gotta say, it was not necessarily the early modern part that was my go-to immediately because I knew there was something to really, really be researched about. It was mostly the cultural and political angle, from political economy, from social, cultural studies, that really drew me into music studies.

JW – Right. And that shows. Because on the one hand, you’re working on the 18th-century Mexico City Cathedral, and on the other, you can work on cumbia music in Monterrey in the 21st century. And I imagine that there’s a lot of different methodology involved, because these seem like really different sources that you’re working with. But still it seems like there’s some kind of through line for you that draws your attention to those different topics.

JRK – I think it would be mostly the show of difference; what is transpiring in both studies. And I do agree with you in the sense that there were two methodologies, at least so far in how I’ve been writing. It wasn’t until I got into literary studies or comparative literature that I started to draw from a specific way of reading, or understanding reading and writing, that made me approach perhaps these texts in a sort of more consistent way, regardless of what they were; either music videos or if they happen to be now Inquisition records or musical scores from that era. There’s something about reading between the lines that makes you consider more broadly: Well, who’s speaking? And what is the structure around this voice? What is the structure that is producing “a” voice of sorts? And of course, depending on what you’re dealing with and what period and what type of sources, that takes you into the whole idea of vocality and soundscapes in one area, or mediascapes in another, if you’re dealing with movies, music videos in the 80s, the music industry, new recording technologies that emerged from there, and what type of ear are they shaping, really, and how that is pretty much also shaping the structure of desire, which is something that moves through the text. Or that you deploy through the text, through your reading of text. So there’s some of a consistency epistemologically speaking, but how I analyze that depends on the sources that I have.

JW – What do you think is special about the musicology program at University of Oregon?

JRK – I think what is particularly enticing is that we have a faculty—I want to say an arena—but I guess, you know, we ourselves, the faculty, are a sort of intellectual arena of sorts, that come with different frames of thinking from different generations and, of course, different university backgrounds of sorts, which gave each one of us a different way of thinking and of course a different canon of readings to tackle. So that creates for really interesting moments of tension. And I don’t mean personal tension. I mean tension in terms of debates. And from those debates is when we start to see one topic or one area from completely different perspectives. And I believe that—I would not say that there are a lot of programs without uniformity of sorts. I do think that right now there might be programs that are searching for a uniformity. And I also know for a fact that there are programs that are willfully neglectful of each other’s capacities. They know the university has a particular name that is very enticing to employers or whatnot. And everybody does what they want to do, because every faculty member is highly accomplished. But there’s no capitalizing on the synergy of those tensions. And I think those tensions are what keep us on our toes, not in terms of competition, but in terms like, “Man, I gotta do my homework on this way of thinking about this thing that I’m writing about.” Because even if you disagree with it, you have to do your research to know why you’re disagreeing with it. Not to say, “Ah. These people are crazy. I’m not gonna even bother.” No. You have to really engage with that thread of thinking to engage with the discourse, because if you want to react to it, you have to be a scholar. You cannot just react with opinion. You have to bring an argument. And that type of exchange to me, at least, has been really, really, of course, invigorating. It has thickened, well, my library, the way I’m writing. And I don’t think too many programs have that. Maybe it’s because we have younger faculty, middle-aged faculty (here your truly), more senior faculty. We have different perspectives historically in relation to the field, which is really beneficial. And also, sometimes we have debates, we have disagreements about, say, the state of the field or about, well, what music studies ought to be, or where do we fit within the humanities. And that, at least in my brief two years here, has been very galvanizing; really, really galvanizing. I cannot tell you how students are benefiting or what they are taking from that, but it’s been really energizing for me to see not only room and space for dissenting sometimes, but sometimes when I hear dissent, I hear it with some girth behind it. And that girth is something that has helped me to enrich my work.

JW – Yeah. That’s great to hear. I feel similarly as a student. I’ve got one more question. What is your go-to coffee or tea order?

JRK – I don’t buy coffee because it’s very expensive. I go to the grocery store and buy good coffee, what I think is good coffee. My go to is Lavazza coffee. Specifically, the Gran Aroma is the one that I like the most, and I make it in my coffee pot with half and half. And that’s in the morning, and that’s my go-to. And at 4:00 or 5:00 PM—I’m not British or anything whatsoever—but I started to take a liking for Earl Grey with a splash of milk and honey in the afternoon. And that’s my ritual for having caffeination.

 

 

Read the longer version of this interview.